Winner Discussion Thread

[Kim P]

Lex just because you were voted out, due to the fact that your social game was the "best" doesn't mean having a social game is not important. Gabe ignoring half the jury is going to hurt him.

[Lex]

A goat is someone who's disliked and dragged to the final 3. Gabe is neither of those things. Especially since he already has more than a few votes. You can't be a goat, and a potential threat to win at the same time. The two are mutually exclusive. I'm not saying that Gabe shouldn't have tried to talk to you, he should have, that's ONE mistake he made. Compared to the dozens, literally dozens of good things he did

Gabe did everything in the game right IMO, he did so perfectly and masterfully that he got 0 votes, that's perfection... you can't ignore that fact.

Again I make the Amazon comparison. Gabe as Rob C pretty much dictated the vote. He had a huge say in every decision and except for Lex voted out every single person in the merge. He made sure that he made the end, because if he didn't get rid of people from both sides, he wasn't making the end whereas Lindsey had other options in people like gina/kimp/sarah and Linda had Lex/Sean/Vee who would've loved to take her. Instead, Gabe got rid of all of them and put himself in that third spot. Nobody fought for their position like he did.

Lindsey is Jenna. Still made decisions, still well liked, and got a handful of immunities but despite everything you can't say that she controlled much of anything.

Lindsey's a great player and played a great game. Gabe imo played a better one. Anyone who says that Gabe is only getting votes from friends isn't reading the dozens and dozens of valid points about his game that those people are making.

This is the definitive truth, we have brought up countless points on how Gabe dictated this game, a social game from Lindsey does not exceed how much Gabe did to secure his spot in the F3.

And Patty, I should've clarified. Gabe was a loyal player no doubt who had SOME input in the game, but ultimately, a LOT of the people voted out were voted out for being threatening. He wasn't "masterminding" this game, creating ways to vote different people out. He was just someone who was voting out threats along with everyone who agreed with his opinion. Plain and simple. The only difference I see between Lindsey and Gabe is that Lindsey played a better social game.

If everybody followed his vote, that means he was masterminding the votes. Lindsey did NOT mastermind any of the votes at all. I can understand why you might think they are similar because you can't read our PMs but I can assure you Gabe and Pat were the 2 most influential people in the entire game in terms of voting.

[Vecepia]

I'd argue that the General was more likeable than lex. He was so naive and loyal to Mariche. It would'be been interesting to see how different the game would've been with him in it. If Sean hadn't saved the both of us with fake idols, tamanaco would have dominated the game it seems. That move changed the rest of the game.

[Kim J]

Lex just because you were voted out, due to the fact that your social game was the "best" doesn't mean having a social game is not important. Gabe ignoring half the jury is going to hurt him.

Exactly. I can vouch that Clarence feels similarly to how we feel. That's one third of this jury that NEVER was talked to by Gabe. I can also vouch that ONE OTHER person feels Gabe was a useless player premerge (I believe Sarah told me, but i'm not sure).

Lindsey played a hard game for the whole game. Gabe was given very easy decisions because he was NEVER gunned for. He was NEVER gunned for for a reason.

And the whole Lindsey backstabbing Linda thing is completely irrelevent considering Linda isn't in this jury, now is she?

[Lex]

Lex, alienating a player is literally the exact opposite of having a social game.

Sure, if you socialize TOO much with everyone your out, but he didn't even talk to me except to tell me that he will eventually talk to me. Eventually never happened.

Lex how can you expect the people Gabe "Didn't need talk to" to vote for him?

He played the best game and I don't deny that you can argue his social game was not as strong as Lindsey's game, but I tried to have conversations with everyone and I did, and that was why I was voted out, you have to be extremely careful who you talk to and what if he's seen as fishing for votes?

Lex just because you were voted out, due to the fact that your social game was the "best" doesn't mean having a social game is not important. Gabe ignoring half the jury is going to hurt him.

He didn't ignore half the jury, the only people he didn't really talk to afaik were you, Kim J and Clarence because all 3 of you were in a bad spot after the merge due to the 8 person alliance he and I were in.

[Kim J]

If everybody followed his vote, that means he was masterminding the votes. Lindsey did NOT mastermind any of the votes at all. I can understand why you might think they are similar because you can't read our PMs but I can assure you Gabe and Pat were the 2 most influential people in the entire game in terms of voting.

People didn't follow him because he's a "mastermind". People followed him because they agreed with him.

[Sarah]

Not for lack of trying, Lex. She tried to get the votes her way ALL the time.

[Kim J]

You're saying he's this amazing peice of survivor goldmine that played an amazing game, when he didn't even give an effort untill final 9. He was given everything in this game, he was put in a good spot. I change my mind, he was in a GREAT spot at merge. He was just too dense to try to continue his good standing. Gabe didn't KNOW I was leaving, or Clarence and Kim for that matter. An idol was in this game, and anyone could have had it. He still never talked to those where were beneath him.

[Kim J]

Kim, Clarence, and I being on the bottom is completely irrelevant in this argument. An idol was in play, no one had it, therefore Gabe should've talked to the people on the bottom to clear his name from being thrown around. Instead, he alienated a third of this jury because he simply DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT.

Lex, your giving Gabe WAY too much credit.

[Vecepia]

We're not saying Gabe was a mastermind ans neither was Lindsey. Gabe was definitely a part of decisions he just didn't showed it. I feel Gabe excelled in strategy where at some points Lindsey was just like WTF happened.

[Lex]

I'd argue that the General was more likeable than lex. He was so naive and loyal to Mariche. It would'be been interesting to see how different the game would've been with him in it. If Sean hadn't saved the both of us with fake idols, tamanaco would have dominated the game it seems. That move changed the rest of the game.

He and I were actually close too, and I was considering flipping on Frank the night he got voted out but you guys voted for Linda and I couldn't do it =(, plus Frank was very stubborn and made us vote for General by telling Kim J to lock in her prevote for General, THEN Frank screwed with you and Sean preventing Sean from playing his "idol" which caused the next vote to seemingly be between Frank and me because Frank decided to play up the "oh I'm switching sides" for no reason... we were voting General so he had no reason to play that act up, if he hadn't the game would have turned out a lot different for certain.

Exactly. I can vouch that Clarence feels similarly to how we feel. That's one third of this jury that NEVER was talked to by Gabe. I can also vouch that ONE OTHER person feels Gabe was a useless player premerge (I believe Sarah told me, but i'm not sure).

Lindsey played a hard game for the whole game. Gabe was given very easy decisions because he was NEVER gunned for. He was NEVER gunned for for a reason.

And the whole Lindsey backstabbing Linda thing is completely irrelevent considering Linda isn't in this jury, now is she?

Dude, I BARELY talked to Clarence or Kim P. after the merge, hell I didn't even talk to Kim P. before the merge, because they were all on the chopping block and I knew it. Lindsey may have talked to more people than Gabe did but Lindsey deviously manipulated a lot of people as well and I don't like that style of gameplay. :/ Gabe was not given easy decisions, how do you think he got put into the power position of swing vote in the first place? He put himself there. For sure it's easier to stick with one alliance and go with the easy votes, but he chose to be the swing vote and he and Patricia dominated a large portion of the game. He was never gunned for because he fooled everyone into thinking he was the weak player when in fact he was the mastermind.

Also Linda's reaction to Lindsey's backstab pretty much cemented my non-voting for Linda. <.< Lindsey is still a possibility but right now I just don't see it happening, you may think all the puzzle pieces fell directly into place for Gabe but it's easier to play a one-dimensional game, he put himself in the driver's seat and Lindsey didn't.

I'd prefer if someone didn't talk to me at all, than someone who talked to me in order to manipulate me.

[Kim J]

We're not saying Gabe was a mastermind ans neither was Lindsey. Gabe was definitely a part of decisions he just didn't showed it. I feel Gabe excelled in strategy where at some points Lindsey was just like WTF happened.

I've seen the word "mastermind" being used by Lex several times.

[Kim J]

I'd argue that the General was more likeable than lex. He was so naive and loyal to Mariche. It would'be been interesting to see how different the game would've been with him in it. If Sean hadn't saved the both of us with fake idols, tamanaco would have dominated the game it seems. That move changed the rest of the game.

He and I were actually close too, and I was considering flipping on Frank the night he got voted out but you guys voted for Linda and I couldn't do it =(, plus Frank was very stubborn and made us vote for General by telling Kim J to lock in her prevote for General, THEN Frank screwed with you and Sean preventing Sean from playing his "idol" which caused the next vote to seemingly be between Frank and me because Frank decided to play up the "oh I'm switching sides" for no reason... we were voting General so he had no reason to play that act up, if he hadn't the game would have turned out a lot different for certain.

Exactly. I can vouch that Clarence feels similarly to how we feel. That's one third of this jury that NEVER was talked to by Gabe. I can also vouch that ONE OTHER person feels Gabe was a useless player premerge (I believe Sarah told me, but i'm not sure).

Lindsey played a hard game for the whole game. Gabe was given very easy decisions because he was NEVER gunned for. He was NEVER gunned for for a reason.

And the whole Lindsey backstabbing Linda thing is completely irrelevent considering Linda isn't in this jury, now is she?

Dude, I BARELY talked to Clarence or Kim P. after the merge, hell I didn't even talk to Kim P. before the merge, because they were all on the chopping block and I knew it. Lindsey may have talked to more people than Gabe did but Lindsey deviously manipulated a lot of people as well and I don't like that style of gameplay. :/ Gabe was not given easy decisions, how do you think he got put into the power position of swing vote in the first place? He put himself there. For sure it's easier to stick with one alliance and go with the easy votes, but he chose to be the swing vote and he and Patricia dominated a large portion of the game. He was never gunned for because he fooled everyone into thinking he was the weak player when in fact he was the mastermind.

Also Linda's reaction to Lindsey's backstab pretty much cemented my non-voting for Linda. <.< Lindsey is still a possibility but right now I just don't see it happening, you may think all the puzzle pieces fell directly into place for Gabe but it's easier to play a one-dimensional game, he put himself in the driver's seat and Lindsey didn't.

I'd prefer if someone didn't talk to me at all, than someone who talked to me in order to manipulate me.

This just shows that Lindsey tried. Manipulation is the name of the game. And manipulation is ten times better then alienation.

[Lex]

Gabe was definitely a part of decisions he just didn't showed it. I feel Gabe excelled in strategy where at some points Lindsey was just like WTF happened.

Agree with this.

People didn't follow him [Gabe] because he's a "mastermind". People followed him because they agreed with him.

This pretty much says Gabe dictated a lot of the voting, and the reasons people decided to vote with him is not really relevant, he chose the vote and he got others to vote with him.

Not for lack of trying, Lex. She tried to get the votes her way ALL the time.

Ehhhh, I still think Pat/Gabe were the most influential factors of the early votes... I tried to get the votes my way all of the time too, it's not really something that jumps out to me that you tried to get people to vote with you... I'd imagine everybody does that. But it's hard to always be the swing vote(s) like Pat and Gabe were in the merge.

You're saying he's this amazing peice of survivor goldmine that played an amazing game, when he didn't even give an effort untill final 9. He was given everything in this game, he was put in a good spot. I change my mind, he was in a GREAT spot at merge. He was just too dense to try to continue his good standing. Gabe didn't KNOW I was leaving, or Clarence and Kim for that matter. An idol was in this game, and anyone could have had it. He still never talked to those where were beneath him.

You don't know that because you weren't around for long enough in the merge. Pat and I can both assure you he was dictating the votes even though he didn't seem like it. Although the Clarence vote I don't know if he was genuinely confused or trying to make others think he was confused.

He knew Kim P was leaving, I know that 100% because I was the one who created the voting scheme and he practically chose to vote for her. I'm pretty sure he voted for you as well.

[Vecepia]

Fuck it, we'll call him socially aware of his position.
And Lex, it would have been nice if you told me about wanting to flip on Frank after suggesting we vote him out.

[Lex]

By voting scheme I mean I created a layout of the pros and cons to voting every player, for example the night we voted out Kim P. I created a list of pros and cons to voting Kim P, Gina, Lindsey and Sarah (?) that night.

[Kim P]

Lex you didn't talk to me before merge because I was on the chopping block? That doesn't make sense.

[Kim J]

NO ONE has argued with the fact that Gabe alienated SEVERAL people with an idol in play. He's incredibly lucky that one of us 3 didn't find it, because this final 3 would be VERY different had that been the case.

[Lex]

This just shows that Lindsey tried. Manipulation is the name of the game. And manipulation is ten times better then alienation.

I don't know about you but manipulation is heinous in my eyes, he fooled everybody and that's a legitimate tactic, it's called the Andy Kaufman strategy.
http://www.funny115.com/archives/kaufman.htm

Fuck it, we'll call him socially aware of his position.
And Lex, it would have been nice if you told me about wanting to flip on Frank after suggesting we vote him out.

I wanted to but I was still internally debating whether or not I should flip on him =( if I can remember I only committed to it after it was me or him the next night because I was certain he would vote for me, but in hindsight I should have voted him out instead of voting General

[Sarah]

I'm not voting for him because he purposely ignored my attempts to talk to him constantly. I know I'm abrasive but I'm not okay with being ignored.