Winner Discussion Thread

Jury Duty

Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Lex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:40:15 am

Hey all,
thought I'd open one of these just to keep everything in one order.

Final 3
Gabriel
Lindsey
Linda


Vote order:

Brenda wrote:Jury

4th - 9th Juror Gina
5th - 8th Juror Lex
6th - 7th Juror Sean
7th - 6th Juror Patricia
8th - 5th Juror Sarah
9th - 4th Juror Vecepia
10th - 3rd Juror Kim P
11th - 2nd Juror Clarence
12th - 1st Juror Kim J

Pre-Jurors
13th Frank
14th General
15th Big Tom
16th Diane
17th Peter
18th John


I'll lead with my argument, posts can be as long and short as you want but just try to add reasoning so the discussion is helpful, for example if you disagree with a point explained by another person, explain why. If you like, we can add in who thinks they are voting for who going into FTC and see if it changes after the speeches and questions from FTC. Mods feel free to edit this to add in information if people want to do that since I don't have permission to edit posts icon_cry .
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Lex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:40:21 am

I think we can come to a general agreement that Linda is pretty much the goat of the 3, I don't think it needs explaining and I'd rather focus on the main vote, Gabriel or Lindsey. This post WILL be biased so explain why you disagree with my points, or if you agree, explain why.


Gabriel

I think he has played by far the most superior game out of everybody in this season. Although I didn't know him before the merge, after the merge, he put himself in the power position - to be the swing vote between both alliances (along with Patricia). While doing this, he set up Patricia and me as larger targets and he received 0 votes iirc the entire merge and possibly the entire game. He successfully dominated the strategic game, and while arguably his social game was a bit short especially for some people (Kim P in particular) I think it was more because he didn't need/want to talk to you guys rather than lacking a social game, because he talked a lot with me, Patricia, Sean, Linda and Vecepia (me and Patricia in particular) and I'm sure he also talked with Lindsey and Gina.

He gave the impression he was a lesser threat than he actually was to avoid becoming a target and successfully pulled that off as well, he fooled many people here and he even fooled me into thinking he was not a threat when he dominated nearly every vote. The Rob Cesternino of the game, except he made it to the finals, his adaptability and highly noticeable decision-making in deciding who to vote clearly demonstrates his master control over the game, and his ability to bond with others via social game was very strong as well.

In summary, I believe he had by far the best strategic game this season, not only being a key factor in nearly every vote (the only time I can remember where the person he voted for wasn't eliminated was when he voted for Gina the night I got eliminated) but tactfully using shields (Patricia, me) to deflect attention off of him and take the fall, proven by receiving 0 votes the entire merge and I'm pretty sure 0 votes the entire game, correct me if I'm wrong.


Lindsey

Lindsey, Lindsey... ok. His strategic game was okay, he bonded with people well and had a good social game IMO, but strategically I think he was lucky. He didn't really show adaptability other than the swap (which by the way the original Tamanaco tribe decided to throw so we could vote out the 3 Mariche members who came over, which didn't work because Sean is a damn smart guy and we decided to blindside Frank instead) being able to bond with Gina in particular. After the swap, he stayed with Gina, Sarah and Kim P and didn't really do anything in terms of strategy other than vote with them nearly every tribal, other than successfully making Linda break down after lying to her about the vote. I feel like he got lucky in terms of the vote because while he was never really targeted like Gabe was, Gabe clearly knew how to use Patricia and me as shields for himself, whereas I only saved Lindsey from the vote by being a dumbass and trying to keep her in even though I knew in the back of my head what he was willing to do (backstabbed Linda). While I did have good conversations and respect him as a person, I feel like he indirectly manipulated me and was very quick to throw me under the bus (which he was mad about when Tom did pre-merge).

In summary, I think Lindsey's social game was good and he was surely good at challenges (although Gabe made a simple mistake in the final one), his strategic game was one-dimensional and mostly heinous, and although he did show some ability to bond with others when needed, Gabe did it better.




In summary, I think while Lindsey can be argued to have a good game, Gabe's strategic game and social game were both far superior to Lindsey's game, his adaptability to new alliances, his power position in the votes and his overall mastery of this season far outweigh what Lindsey has done in the game. While Lindsey's social game was strong, Gabe's was just as strong if not stronger than Lindsey's, and I feel Lindsey got lucky in dodging the vote many times while Gabe expertly maneuvered others to take the vote and fooled everyone into thinking he was a non-threat. My vote is surely going to Gabe unless he has an astoundingly bad FTC performance.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:50:25 am

Fun fact: Gabe and I were actually very close on NuMariche. We just kinda drifted apart after the merge :(
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:52:12 am

*I will forever refer to people as he/she because they were playing as those characters.

And I have the most biased opinion of anyone in this jury. Hell, I was around the merge for 2 days. And immediately after I was voted out, there was a 3 day break! I have LITTLE output on this finale, with that said...

LINDSEY played an absolute KILLER social game in my eyes. The way she treated me is my only proof, and she treated me wonderfully. At merge, we talked an INSANE amount, and was straightforward with EVERYTHING. She told me whether or not my fate was sealed, and told it to me honestly. Social game aside, she also had SEVERAL backup plans in this game. If Sean/Vecepia was leaving 12th instead of me, then she had a perfect backup plan she had told me about (all including me). In the end of the game, she had to fight the hardest to get to the end. From what I saw, Gabe just simply had everything put on his lap.

Gabe never talked to me, and I don't see a reason for me to even consider voting for him. He didn't put an effort in the 2 days I was with him on a tribe, and voted for me because he was told to, not because he deduced it himself that it was the best possible choice.

I would honestly consider voting Linda before I would consider voting Gabe. I surely hope he upped his gabe after I left.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:53:48 am

In summery: Lindsey is awesome, Gabe was told what to do. Linda is just Linda.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:54:39 am

Kim J wrote:In summery: Lindsey is awesome, Gabe was told what to do. Linda is just Linda.

Pretty much this <33333
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:57:04 am

And Gabe's social game was only good with the people he was aligned with. Everyone who he talked to previously (myself included) who ended up on the other side of the numbers during the merge he completely ignored. Not very social if you ask me.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:57:11 am

Kim J wrote:I would honestly consider voting Linda before I would consider voting Gabe. I surely hope he upped his gabe after I left.

Dat typo, *game
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Patricia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:58:56 am

Kim P wrote:And Gabe's social game was only good with the people he was aligned with. Everyone who he talked to previously (myself included) who ended up on the other side of the numbers during the merge he completely ignored. Not very social if you ask me.


This is not entirely true. Gabe and I both tried talking to you. We both tried sending you pm's and the reason we 'never talked to you' is because you NEVER REPLIED. never. Not Once. You can't blame him for that.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Patricia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:00:56 am

re: KimJ Gabe was NOT told what to do! How do you even get that impression you weren't even there? He had major influence on every decision that was supposedly 'made for him'. Besides, look at the people who apparently made those decisions. Sean, Me, Lex to an extent.. all gone.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:02:58 am

Did Gabe tell you the same about me Patty? Because I had to interrogate him for him to send me a one sentence reply promising to talk to me "later".

Later turned into 30 hours and no response, with me getting voted out. Gabe was also told to vote me out, he didn't think of it himself and he didn't think of any benefits it would provide him. I see no real proof how Gabe played this game aside from making split-vote decisions that he made because OTHERS gave it to him. He didn't give it to himself.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:04:59 am

Patricia wrote:re: KimJ Gabe was NOT told what to do! How do you even get that impression you weren't even there? He had major influence on every decision that was supposedly 'made for him'. Besides, look at the people who apparently made those decisions. Sean, Me, Lex to an extent.. all gone.

Sorry, my previous post was sent before reading this.

You guys were all THREATS. That's why you left. He didn't "scheme", it was an easy vote to make. He want's to win, so he'll vote out people ahead of him in order to get there. So would everyone else that voted against you guys. It's basic survivor strategy.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:06:11 am

Patricia wrote:
Kim P wrote:And Gabe's social game was only good with the people he was aligned with. Everyone who he talked to previously (myself included) who ended up on the other side of the numbers during the merge he completely ignored. Not very social if you ask me.


This is not entirely true. Gabe and I both tried talking to you. We both tried sending you pm's and the reason we 'never talked to you' is because you NEVER REPLIED. never. Not Once. You can't blame him for that.

Okay I'm glad this is coming up. I really wish Jeff would unlock the pms because I really am confused about this. Sean I can confidently say yes I never replied but you not so much. I thought me and you talked a lot. So much that we talked about pointless stuff like our favorite tv show. Regardless of where you stand I no for a fact that Gabe never reached out to me after the merge. We were really tight on NuMariche and I talked to him the most, even more than Sarah and Lindsey. But once the merge hit I shot him a message and he responded with "I'll get back to you, I'm busy" That was the last I heard from him.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:07:14 am

Kim P wrote:
Patricia wrote:
Kim P wrote:And Gabe's social game was only good with the people he was aligned with. Everyone who he talked to previously (myself included) who ended up on the other side of the numbers during the merge he completely ignored. Not very social if you ask me.


This is not entirely true. Gabe and I both tried talking to you. We both tried sending you pm's and the reason we 'never talked to you' is because you NEVER REPLIED. never. Not Once. You can't blame him for that.

Okay I'm glad this is coming up. I really wish Jeff would unlock the pms because I really am confused about this. Sean I can confidently say yes I never replied but you not so much. I thought me and you talked a lot. So much that we talked about pointless stuff like our favorite tv show. Regardless of where you stand I no for a fact that Gabe never reached out to me after the merge. We were really tight on NuMariche and I talked to him the most, even more than Sarah and Lindsey. But once the merge hit I shot him a message and he responded with "I'll get back to you, I'm busy" That was the last I heard from him.

I have a very similar story, except I don't even have the benefit of being friends with him premerge.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Patricia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:12:04 am

Well I don't know about his interactions with you. I think he may have ignored you because you guys legitimately had no reason to interact. There was no way you were surviving the vote, and you guys had no previous relationship unlike Linda/Lindsey. There were 10 other people to talk to, and you probably just fell by the wayside.

As for Kim P, I experienced that myself, and Gabe mentioned it to me.

Gabe actually made several decisions, Since he and I were flipping, he was the one who actually decided on flipping back to oust Vecepia. I was considering it, but he came to me with the entire plan and was like "Here's how we do it".

A key part of our games of playing the middle was that we couldn't just dictate to each side how we wanted the vote to go. We used each of our individual influence to make the people in that alliance vote the way we wanted. Gabe and I worked together at each of the first 5 votes of the merge to ensure that who we wanted went home.

Clarence being a prime example, the plan was almost Sean but we wanted Clarence gone so it happened because of our combined effort.

I never would've flipped on Kim P if Gabe hadn't also decided that it was good for his own game. He didn't do it because I told him to. I suggested it, he was like "Yes, that also gives me a better chance to make the end".

And then, at F7, he made the decision to blindside me because if I was still around, i'd be getting the credit for the moves he made because of our relationship up to that point.

He schemed. He schemed harder than anyone. You can't play the middle, and make the end without scheming. Just because he didn't scheme WITH anyone doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:16:44 am

Patty, if he wants ANY votes at the finale, then he should socialize with EVERYONE, REGARDLESS of their chances of staying or leaving.

It wouldn't hurt him to at least talk to me. I'm a juror, regardless of how little we talked, he should still give me a single benefit of the doubt and talk to me. If he doesn't talk to me, then he doesn't deserve my vote.

He also had NO say in me leaving, which infuriates me more that he still voted me without chatting with me. He was told what to do, and did it. The PERFECT goat. Linda's not the goat in this final 3, Gabe is.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:19:20 am

This Final Tribal is turning into Gabon. Bob (Gabe) won simply because the majority of the jury were friends with him while Susie (Lindsey) the person who clearly played the better game lost by one vote.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Vecepia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:20:00 am

Can confirm Kim P sent me 3 messages.
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim J » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:21:03 am

Vecepia don't go there. You wouldn't talk to me at all, after I sent you SEVERAL mails
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Re: Winner Discussion Thread

Postby Kim P » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:23:53 am

Vecepia wrote:Can confirm Kim P sent me 3 messages.

Yes but I'm not in the fucking Final Three am I?
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